At the 2025 Binance Blockchain Week held in Dubai on December 3-4, Binance founder CZ participated in a group interview. The Q&A covered topics such as crypto payments, digital asset treasury, US policy, Giggle Academy, and life aspirations. CZ believes that payments remain a core scenario that has not yet been fully resolved. Successful Web3 founders in the future need to be product- and user-centric with a long-term mindset. The DAT model itself is feasible, but the risks depend on the management team. The reopening of US regulations will bring huge opportunities to the industry. The mainstream adoption of crypto technology depends on regulatory clarity, infrastructure, and enterprise-level integration. Crypto has significantly improved financial accessibility in developing countries. Education, philanthropy, and ecosystem development are his future personal priorities.
This content represents the guest's personal views and does not represent the views of Wu Shuo. Audio transcription was done by GPT and may contain errors.
Why Has the Crypto Industry Still Not Truly Solved the "Payment" Problem? CZ: I believe payment remains the most obvious, yet unsolved, core scenario. The Bitcoin white paper defines it as an "electronic cash payment system." Countless teams have tried to develop crypto payments over the years, but we haven't fully succeeded yet. There are various projects like Binance Pay and BitPay, but the "chicken or the egg" problem persists. First, there's the volatility of cryptocurrency prices—Bitcoin and most crypto assets are too volatile. While stablecoins exist, our ideal scenario is for users to pay directly with cryptocurrency. However, in reality, due to various factors, crypto payments haven't become widespread offline. One viable direction is to integrate crypto payments into traditional payment systems, such as Binance Card. The reason these cards are popular is simple: when a user swipes the card, the merchant only sees fiat currency deposited, while the user is using cryptocurrency in the background, making the entire crypto-to-fiat exchange experience very smooth. Unfortunately, during the Biden administration's tightening regulations, most of our Binance Card project was forced to halt. However, the situation is improving now, and hopefully, these solutions will regain popularity in the coming years. In short, while there are many different technological paths, "payments" remain one of the biggest unsolved problems in the crypto industry. What was Binance's initial vision? And how has it evolved? CZ: Predicting the future is really difficult. When we founded Binance, my goal was to become a top ten global exchange within three years, and we became number one in just five months. Initially, we considered setting up a physical office, but quickly realized it wasn't a good idea. So we tried to make Binance a "decentralized company"—no headquarters, no fixed office location. But we later found that this would be very troublesome for regulators, because regulators need to know exactly where a company is registered. So we had to adjust our thinking again. Throughout the process, various external forces pushed us forward and forced us to change direction. Now, centralized exchanges must be fully regulated entities with clearly defined headquarters and office locations; at the same time, on-chain solutions are becoming increasingly popular. I believe that centralized and decentralized models will coexist for a long time to come. If we could go back in time and do this again, everything would probably be clearer. In the next cycle, what kind of founders will stand out? CZ: That's a big question, but I think the most crucial point is "product orientation"—founders who truly focus on making products, things users will actually use, and who genuinely understand users will be the ones who stay. Founders driven by mission and with strong values will also continue to exist. The crypto industry is inherently very volatile. We may be in a bull market now, but there will definitely be a bear market afterward, followed by another bull market, and so on. Regulations in different countries will also constantly change, sometimes proactive, sometimes restrictive, oscillating cyclically. Founders who can weather these cycles and persevere will ultimately win. In summary, those who truly succeed are founders who create genuine products, focus on users, and are prepared to cultivate the industry long-term. If you could make one wish, what would you want most? CZ: I think one wish would be enough (laughs). But honestly, I don't have many wishes. Life is interesting because it's full of unknowns. When you don't know what will happen next, you strive, fight, and learn to face uncertainty. Just like playing a game, if you're told you'll definitely win from the start, it's not fun. What truly makes a game meaningful are the parts that require you to struggle, to be careful, to cooperate, and to get things done. The challenges of life are part of the fun. My only real wish is that everyone is healthy. Health is the most important thing, and even with good habits, it's not entirely within our control. Health is truly crucial. Aside from that, I think the world is interesting enough. I also believe that it's precisely because life isn't infinite that we cherish it so much. If you could live forever, time would become unimportant, and life wouldn't be as precious. You only truly understand the value of something when you're about to lose it. So I don't have many special wishes; I already feel very lucky. My only wish is that I don't fall into a long period of bad luck. Other than that, I'm very content with my life. Is the Digital Asset Vault (DAT) model sustainable? CZ: First, I think the DAT (Digital Asset Vault) model is logically sound. It allows traditional companies—especially those that aren't institutionally allowed to directly purchase large amounts of crypto assets—to access and allocate crypto assets. Many companies and many CFOs are allowed to use company treasuries to buy stocks, but there's no mechanism to buy tokens, so the DAT model fills that need. However, there are many different approaches to DAT. Because MicroStrategy was so successful, everyone wants to replicate its model. But the success of one internet company doesn't mean all companies have the same management capabilities. Different DAT management teams have different fee structures; I personally prefer lower fees and simpler DAT structures. MicroStrategy's model is very straightforward: it's about buying Bitcoin. And BNB's treasury, if used effectively with tools like Launchpad, Launchpool, and airdrops, can generate considerable returns (10-50% annualized is possible), which is a very high return compared to the traditional stock market. However, some DATs want to be "more complex" or "more valuable," for example, by investing 10% of their corporate treasury in different crypto assets. That actually becomes a completely different business model, requiring professional asset management capabilities. Different portfolios will bring completely different risk structures, and the level of risk depends entirely on the management team's skill. The entire industry is highly diverse. DATs are by no means risk-free; they are very risky and rely heavily on the management team, governance structure, and investment philosophy. But fundamentally, it's perfectly reasonable for a publicly traded company to buy top crypto assets, hold them long-term, and profit from their appreciation. Simply executing this can create a lot of value. In my opinion, holding Bitcoin long-term is one of the best-performing strategies. Its returns over the past 10–15 years have outperformed 99% of startups and surpassed almost all other investment strategies. So even a publicly traded company that simply executes a "buy and hold" strategy can generate significant value in the long run. The model itself is viable—the key lies in execution and management. Of course, when a narrative becomes very popular, it's easy to overheat. Everyone rushes to establish DAT, resulting in an overcrowded market; some will fail, and some will be eliminated. Only after the first wave of hype subsides will truly stable and well-managed DATs continue to grow. Will the US become Binance's key market after Trump's pardon? CZ: First of all, I have no private business dealings with the Trump family. But I am very grateful for this presidential pardon because it allows me and my team to operate more freely globally—including in the United States. Frankly, I genuinely hope to help the US become a global hub for crypto capital. For us, the US is now actually an "emerging market." Over the past few years, under regulatory pressure from the previous administration, we withdrew from the US as much as possible: avoiding US users, not investing in the US, and withdrawing whenever possible. Binance US still exists, but its business is very small. On the day it was sued by the SEC in 2023, it had about 35% market share; now it's almost zero. At that time, banking access was also restricted, and state licenses were limited. But now, as far as I know, the US market has fully reopened. The US is an extremely important market, leading the world in talent in fields like technology and AI—but in the blockchain field, the largest companies are currently not based in the US. I hope to drive more crypto businesses back to the US. Many US investors, especially institutional investors, currently lack access to and investment channels in the BNB ecosystem, and we hope to change that. Everything is moving towards openness. I also fully intend to support the development of the US crypto industry—including investing in and supporting startups, and helping more projects join the BNB Chain ecosystem. How to maintain mental health amidst public pressure and negative media coverage? CZ: For me, it's not that difficult. I know Binance—both as a platform and its ecosystem—has genuinely helped hundreds of millions of people worldwide, especially those in remote areas where financial services were previously almost unavailable. While there are many negative reports and accusations online, especially in mainstream media, I also receive many letters of gratitude. When I went to court, I received approximately 230 letters of support. Reading those letters almost brought me to tears—because we have truly changed the lives of many people, and this is only a tiny fraction of those we have helped. So public opinion is always two-sided. Regarding online criticism, I roughly divide it into two categories: The first category is mainstream media, who often promote an anti-crypto narrative: such as "cryptocurrencies are dangerous," "Bitcoin is used for illegal transactions," etc. These narratives mostly come from traditional institutions that are afraid of new technologies. In the US—although I don't participate in politics—some Democrats like Elizabeth Warren have also been attacking the crypto industry. I don't know why, because most Americans actually support crypto. This group is the first category. The second category is people who lose money trading. When they're making money, everything is fine; when they lose money, they want to blame others. I can understand their frustration, but investing inherently involves taking on your own risks. No exchange can guarantee you'll always make money. Whether it's stocks, starting a business, or any other investment, there are risks; not investing is also a risk—you might never accumulate wealth. Life is about making choices. Understanding these basic principles will make things much easier. I've been through a lot myself, including imprisonment. But I know that no user was harmed, there was no fraud, and no wrongdoing. I took full responsibility for my actions. Therefore, I can sleep soundly because I know I truly helped many people. Over time, you'll learn to automatically filter out meaningless noise. But I will carefully read "constructive negative feedback"—for example, someone pointing out areas for product improvement, potential partnerships, or areas where features could be better. I'll read anything that helps us improve. As for those purely complaining voices without any real content… well, let's just treat them as background noise. What needs to happen for encryption to truly achieve mainstream adoption? CZ: I think it's a gradual process. "Mainstream adoption" essentially means making encryption technology naturally accessible to traditional financial users. The first step must be clear regulation. The regulatory frameworks in many countries around the world are far from clear enough. I personally work with more than a dozen countries, and our team assists governments in reviewing regulations, including those in Kenya, Pakistan, and Thailand, and even conducts workshops to explain to regulators how exchanges operate, how encryption works, and the mechanisms of the entire industry. I also personally serve as an advisor to several countries. However, currently, only a few countries have truly clear and forward-looking regulations. The United States is starting to take the lead, which is a good sign, but it's still early. Trump has only been in office for a year, yet the Genius Act has already been passed, and the Clarity Act is still under development. First drafts of regulations are often imperfect and require continuous iteration over time. Once regulations are established, banks also need to begin collaborating with crypto businesses. Crypto is not magic; it's simply a new technology. To achieve widespread adoption, it must integrate with the existing financial system. Many practical issues need to be addressed: How should companies hold crypto assets? How to handle cross-border taxes? How should crypto assets be presented in financial statements? How should auditing firms conduct audits? These all need standardization. It's not particularly difficult, but it requires time and coordination. Currently, there is a severe lack of native crypto financial products. The entire industry is only about $3-4 trillion in size, but in the long term, it should be in the $300-400 trillion range. We are still in the very early stages. For payments to mature, more financial products need to be developed. Any new technology takes time to become mainstream. In 1995, people were already dreaming of video conferencing and VR conferencing, but even today, VR conferencing isn't widespread, and video calls still have the problems of "Can you hear me? Can you see me?" Technological maturity often takes decades. Encryption is more disruptive, so it may take even longer—even generations. But it will eventually happen. How can encryption technology bring real value to emerging markets? CZ: I think developing countries actually have more opportunities. First, many places simply lack mature financial infrastructure. For example, in some African countries, bank account penetration is less than 11%. But smartphone penetration is incredibly fast—50%, 60%, even 70%. This creates a perfect environment: people can instantly access financial services simply by downloading an app. In many places, even the most basic payment network doesn't exist. I once received a letter from someone who said that in 2017, paying a bill took three days, walking from his village to another town. With cryptocurrency, it only took three minutes. This saved him three days each month. He also began to explore new asset classes, even if only investing small amounts. He initially invested $50, then $300, then $1000. For someone in a very poor country, a few hundred dollars is a huge improvement. His life was substantially changed, and he wrote me a very touching letter. In many developing countries, their currencies are unstable, and inflation, even hyperinflation, is frequent. Bitcoin and stablecoins provide them with a hedging tool. Some countries don't even have their own currency and can only use the US dollar. When the Federal Reserve implements quantitative easing, these countries don't receive any new currency; they are simply passively "diluted." Therefore, for these places, cryptocurrencies may actually be a better choice. Developing countries also have another characteristic: a very young population. Young people naturally love crypto. For example, in Pakistan, which I've been working with, the average age is only 25. The population is young, open-minded, and genuinely loves crypto. Now, governments are also beginning to realize that "we should go where the people want." So ultimately, it depends on the country's leadership. If leaders are open-minded and willing to find the best path for the country, I strongly encourage them to embrace encryption. And we are very happy to help. How is Giggle Academy progressing in promoting free education? CZ: First of all, it's not a commercial project—it's a completely free educational platform. I just had a meeting with the team this morning. Giggle Academy currently serves approximately 88,000 children, adding about 3,000 to 4,000 new students every week, growing very rapidly. The platform now has about 300 lessons and two to three thousand storybooks. The main content is currently in English, with some basic Arabic content recently added. The storybooks are available in 30–40 languages via AI. The team is also constantly expanding its content and improving the interactive experience. Currently, the AI's interactive capabilities are not strong enough, especially the speech recognition effect when children speak is not ideal, and the team is working on this. The team now has about 60 full-time members and several hundred content contributors. For the first 8-9 months, I personally funded this project. Later, we wanted to design an incentive mechanism for contributors, so we launched a donation page. Someone created a meme coin based on this project, which quickly brought in approximately $11 million in donations for Giggle Academy. Now we are planning how to use these funds to further expand the platform. Overall, Giggle Academy is progressing very well. It's not a business—all educational content is free. If your child is between 2 and 6 years old, give it a try. Kids will keep coming back to use it; it's incredibly addictive. They learn vocabulary, phonics, concepts, and more while playing games. Next, we'll expand to more languages. We started with English, but later found that English content couldn't be simply translated into Chinese or Arabic—each language requires a redesign of the curriculum in the way best suited to that language. Therefore, we must build the curriculum from scratch for each language, and we will do so. In Abu Dhabi, the local leadership loves the platform and asked us to deploy it in local kindergartens. They were even willing to provide financial support, but we told them money wasn't the limit; the ability to scale deployment was key. We also want to add Korean as soon as possible, but that depends on our curriculum production capacity. In the long run, I hope to develop a tool that allows anyone to create their own course content, truly making educational content user-generated (UGC). However, creating courses that children enjoy, with excellent animation, and that can keep children focused is actually very difficult, and we are still continuously optimizing it using AI technology. This is a project I'm truly passionate about. I dedicate several hours each week to working with the team, who are working on it full-time. Which public welfare and social projects will you primarily support in the future? CZ: First of all, I believe money isn't for hoarding, but rather a tool for doing things. Money allows us to drive truly meaningful endeavors. Currently, my main focus in public welfare is education. To be honest, I haven't personally spent that much—supporting the 60-person team at Giggle Academy only cost about a million or two dollars. The community later donated another $11 million, but that wasn't my money; it will all go towards the education platform itself. As long as you're doing something truly valuable, fundraising isn't difficult. As for my own wealth, I'm still exploring how to invest it more effectively. When I was leading Binance, we had a complete philanthropic team that I could rely on. Now I don't have that team anymore, so I'm considering rebuilding it—it probably doesn't need to be large-scale; one or two people dedicated to researching different areas of philanthropy would be enough. I've met many interesting people. For example, I met Bill McGlashan yesterday; he was a high-ranking executive at a well-known VC firm and also served time in prison for a very special, unprecedented case (ten years before mine). I met him while I was going through that process myself. Now he's working on a social project researching new soil microbiomes. Because of chemical fertilizers and over-cultivation, much of the world's soil has lost its nutrients, and his project aims to restore soil health. He doesn't intend to profit from it—it's a non-profit project, but the business model is sustainable. This type of project is something I'm currently focusing on. I had previously stated I wouldn't do climate-related philanthropy, but soil projects are actually closely related to the climate. Restored soil can absorb approximately 30% of lower atmospheric carbon emissions. While I'm not an expert in this field, I often encounter people doing truly impactful things. Outside of education, I haven't yet locked onto a specific philanthropic theme; in other areas, I'll rely more on expert judgment. In addition, I also have long-term private donations to an organization called Prison Professors, which focuses on prison education and support for inmates. I also anonymously donate through another organization that helps orphans in countries like the United States and Thailand. So currently, my charitable projects are spread across several small areas and are still in the exploratory stage. Personally, I hope that in the future all donations can be fully on-chain and processed using encryption, so that the entire process can be completely transparent and traceable to the ultimate beneficiary. However, the practical difficulty is that many ultimate beneficiaries do not use encrypted wallets. If it is mandatory to only receive payments using encrypted methods, the reachable population will become very small. Therefore, this aspect needs to be balanced. Currently, I'm trying to collaborate with different non-profit organizations to observe which are efficient and which can truly have an impact, and then decide which areas to support in the long term. What will the world be like when 1 billion people use Web3? CZ: I think eventually everyone will naturally use Web3. In that future, we shouldn't be discussing terms like "encryption" or "Web3" anymore. Discussing encryption is like discussing TCP/IP—that's just a low-level protocol; discussing blockchain is like discussing the underlying network structure. Ordinary users shouldn't even feel the existence of these technologies. People should only say, "I want to pay someone," "I want to send something," or "I want to buy something." Like today, when we say "I'll Google it," the brand becomes a verb, and the technology itself is completely hidden. Ideally, users wouldn't need to understand TPS, wouldn't need to know transaction fees, wouldn't need to know gas, and there shouldn't even be a concept like "address." You just need to enter the recipient's name to make a payment. We need to completely abstract away all the complexity. But right now, technology and the industry as a whole haven't reached that point. We need to create better, easier-to-use products, and not necessarily all of them will be done by Binance; it will be an ecosystem formed by multiple applications and products. Ultimately, I believe the ecosystem will experience a certain degree of consolidation. Today, when you search for something, you usually use Google—although AI is challenging it now, network effects usually give rise to a dominant platform. I believe Web3 will see a similar landscape in the future. That's my vision for the future. What are your thoughts on Binance's new leadership structure? Where will your focus be in the future? CZ: I think this is a very natural evolution. He Yi was originally a co-founder; she has a very strategic vision and is extremely hardworking. She has a very strong connection with the community—she's very active on both Twitter and Chinese social media, understands both users and the product, and thinks strategically. She's truly one of the most hardworking and resilient people I've ever met. She's always had a significant influence within the company; this title is simply formalizing what she's already been doing. I believe she will continue to do a great job. The feedback so far has been generally positive. Western markets may not be as familiar with her, but Asian users know her very well. Even the feedback I've received from the West has been very positive, and I think she will excel in this role. She's also nine years younger than me, which is quite natural. I became CEO around 40, and she's at that stage now. Taking on greater leadership responsibilities is a natural progression for her. Although it's now an official title, she's been informally assuming these responsibilities for a long time. Her and Richard's abilities complement each other very well. Richard has a stronger regulatory background and is more fluent in English. Her English is indeed a limitation—although it's improving. You'll hear a lot of grammatical errors when you listen to her speak, but she can convey information accurately. And her learning ability is very strong; these are very rare qualities. Personally—when I stepped down as Binance CEO, I actually cried. I was writing that announcement blog at 4 a.m. in Seattle, and I was crying as I wrote. It took me a while to recover. But then I suddenly realized: life can be so easy. During that nearly year-long period in the US, I couldn't do anything, so I went skiing, kitesurfing, and so on. When I returned to the company and saw everything running smoothly, I actually felt a sense of relief. I realized I didn't need to go back to day-to-day management. Life is about moving forward, not backward. Now I'm more involved in ecosystem building—including BNB Chain's ecosystem projects, helping different entrepreneurs, and collaborating more frequently with Nina. This was actually my first time meeting her in person—just a minute ago—although we often communicate online. We help founders through projects like YZi Labs and Giggle Academy. I'm also assisting different countries in developing crypto regulatory frameworks, which is quite interesting—thinking about the future of the crypto industry from a "regulatory" perspective. For me, no longer being involved in Binance's day-to-day management is actually a good thing, as it helps the growth of BNB Chain and the entire ecosystem. I enjoy my current job. The Binance team is already very strong, and one person shouldn't stay in the same position for too long—appropriate handover and renewal are good for the organization and create opportunities for the next generation of leaders. I think this adjustment is a better direction for everyone. What daily habits contribute most to your success? CZ: I think learning something new every day is very important for success. What schools teach us is mostly reading, writing, basic logical thinking, and some math—and that's about all we really remember. Schools don't teach you entrepreneurship, negotiation, leadership, financial literacy, or how a startup works. These are the most important skills in life, and you have to learn them yourself. If you're a professional, like a doctor or lawyer, you'll use a lot of what you learn in school. But for most people, especially entrepreneurs, it's about continuous self-learning and learning from users. You need to maintain an open mind. Learning a little every day can prevent your thinking from becoming rigid and allow you to continuously see new opportunities. Another very important habit is: work hard while staying healthy. Entrepreneurship is not only mentally demanding but also physically demanding; you must have a strong body. You need to cultivate good habits: resilience under pressure, good sleep, healthy eating, regular exercise, and taking care of your body. You must be able to work long hours while remaining healthy—even 16 hours a day. So, for me, these habits are very important.
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